Curse

kooomar · Aug 12, 2007, 04:54 PM // 16:54

There is no scam here, as you may have already realized. People have hit it spot on, its ebayed inflation. That and collectors beginning to hang on to the rare minis. You have to realize this hypothetical situation (I know some numbers are wrong):

100 mini beetles to begin with (some have been reported to be deleted, which I personally dont believe, but thats a different story)

lets say 20 people want to keep theirs, that makes 80

80 people sell theirs for (back in the day, when they first came out) 100 ectos

demand starts to go up, as people realize they can't get one of these for 100 ectos, as they were already sold

Ascalon id1 "WTB mini roller beetle, 150 ectos"

rinse and repeat all the while removing some from the market when a collector gets one.

Now you're down to 20 MAX rollerbeetles that would POSSIBLY be sold, as the rest are tight in collector hands. These 20 will not go for a small amount either, thats why people were offering you so much for it.

The worst thing is that it was done in the past 3 weeks from a few random names that nobody knows that MOST LIKELY bought all theri gold off ebay, who knows, they might be legit, but I doubt it.

As someone said above, they didn't think the gold selling online was that bad, same here, I really didn't have a problem with it, sure it helps someone get theri 15k armor, or a fancy new sword, it didn't bothe rme at all. But when you see people with enough in game money to buy a CAR (80 million is about 4,000 american dollars) it makes you say "huh"

B E A S T · Aug 12, 2007, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Engel the Fallen

I still wonder though if ANET supports the bots in a way. Each bot that comes into the game brings with it cash. I do not buy all this, they are on stolen accounts, or they are on free trials [which IIRC you cannot trade stuff from] because since ANET's only way to combat bots is to change the game, most of the farmers will profit long before ANET bans their account.

Dont get rid of the bots anet! I love playing dodge the bot in Altrumn Ruins

lacasner · Aug 12, 2007, 05:09 PM // 17:09

All I would like to know is the name of the fool who even made these mini-pets "trade-eligible" in the first place.

The Herbalizer · Aug 12, 2007, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by lacasner

All I would like to know is the name of the fool who even made these mini-pets "trade-eligible" in the first place.

Anet have seriously seriously messed up in my honest opinion.

They destroyed the high high end item market and have introduced an even higher unobtainable to legitimate players market.

You see people winging 24/7 that they cannot obtain that perfect Crystalline sword and how unfair it is. Complaining at how unobtainable a few hundred ecto is. Now we see mini pets for in the region of ten thousand ecto.

I have no problem with rare items or mini pets. I have no problem with inflation occuring through the items or mini pets desirability. I do however, have a massive problem with things becoming so heavily inflated due to a couple of dozen hardcore gold buyers that cause the said things to no longer become available to legitimate players.

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Please note there are exception to the above e.g. people who had Kanaxi and Panda and sold one for 80 million gold thus allowing them to have alot of gold to play around with. Where that example of 80 million gold came from in order to buy the mini pet I have a problem with.

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Anet need to seriously look at their mini pet policy as the whole gold buying situation is crazy. Maybe they have an "interest" in it which would explain why people are able to obtain such huge quantities of gold without getting banned.

If not it really does not send a good signal to the community. If a player can purchase tens of millions of gold and not get banned then purchasing a few million gold will clearly not result in a ban.

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Martin Alvito · Aug 12, 2007, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Actually, everything was fine with the hyper-rare minipets until the announcement regarding the Hall of Monuments. If you kept track of prices (as I did), the inflation in price earlier in year largely mirrored the devaluation of the ecto following loot scaling.

Let's face it, making it such that the minipet is potentially 'transferrable' in some way to the next game (and it will be just as exclusive there as here) makes having one a lot more attractive. Combine that with the fact that it's possible to have crazy amounts of cash (the game's been running for 2 years) and you get crazy prices. This is independent of the gold-buying problem.

(Yes, I am familiar with the story of the Kanaxai that was sold to the gold-buyer and what was paid for it. That person ultimately is not the problem; these minis are both scarce and in demand and apparently the prices are correcting to the proper market values. The gold-buyer here is the mechanism by which the price corrects; it would have happened anyway, however. Just not as fast.)

Buying gold permits people to amass large concentrations of wealth much more rapidly than they normally should; I see how you would believe that their current effect on prices is limiting the items' availability from "legitimate" players. But let's be honest: you didn't get the 20 million you needed before the price correction to buy a Kanaxai by playing normally. Most of the major concentrations of wealth in the game have been amassed in the last year or so; generally they've been put together by hardcore traders. I've done my fair share of trading (see avatar); those guys can have it. Not that it isn't profitable, just that it's boring.

At the end of the day - if you want to lay blame for the current price situation on minis, it goes to two places. Domain of Anguish and Hard Mode. Both are very popular additions to the game; both make it very possible to accumulate a lot of wealth on a single account. That's driving the problem; the AMOUNT of gold people are buying is a symptom of the problems caused by those changes.

ShadowsRequiem · Aug 12, 2007, 09:17 PM // 21:17

one reason why I absolutely hate trading in game.

Most people pm you after seeing the WTB in party search. They wont tell you the price because they are trying to get you to pay over what they want for the item.
I was told 100k+150e for a req 9 tact emblazoned defender.... wtf.

Ensign · Aug 12, 2007, 10:02 PM // 22:02

I have a feeling that the minipet market isn't being driven by ebay gold, but by the huge stockpiles of wealth accumulated by power trading early on in the game; those players tend to correlate very well with the hardcore collector demographic that rare minipets would appeal to.

MithranArkanere · Aug 12, 2007, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Ok... all this is going to force Anet to really ad any kind of limit to trades.... and that is something must of us do not want.

Now we see something. Before the hall of monument,s pets were just for show... so no need to give huge ammounts... now that they will unlock something, those Botters, Ebayers, Bug/Glitch abusers or whatever they are are revealing themselves.

If things keep like that, the possible solutions would be something that many will find very bad, imagine this:
- Being imposible to trade items for items, just gold for items or items for nothing.
- Limit stacks of the same item that can be traded.
- Impossibility to trade value:0 items or certain items.
- Imposibility to trade items that are managed with traders.

And so...

Trade in GW is doomed unless they really fix the 'babel tower sympthom' that makes some fool want to get Ebay gold.
Something must be added to freeze and decrease prices when they go over certain amounts.

liner · Aug 12, 2007, 10:32 PM // 22:32

It isnt known at all if having a pet in your storage/inventory is 'unlocking' anything for HoM. Perhaps you would require to actually receive the present from anet/unwrap it yourself..

i can see it now, wtb wrapped b/d present, 1000 armbraces. ^^

Im sure its possible to gather alot of money by power trading though, myself made over 300k within 2 weeks by a bit of farming and buying/selling gemsets.
... but multiple armbraces %)

makosi · Aug 12, 2007, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

At the end of the day - if you want to lay blame for the current price situation on minis, it goes to two places. Domain of Anguish and Hard Mode. Both are very popular additions to the game; both make it very possible to accumulate a lot of wealth on a single account. That's driving the problem; the AMOUNT of gold people are buying is a symptom of the problems caused by those changes.

Hard mode came alongside loot scaling which reduced people's raw gold income from drops quite significantly. At the same time people are earning more from missions and bonus mission successes meaning that the 'normal' player won't be so affected. Gems, however expensive they are, do not bring gold in to the economy because they have no value except what other player are prepared to pay for them. As a result DoA only transfers funds from player-to-player instead of injecting gold in the circular flow of income.

I agree that many players got rich from DoA but only because of other people's willingness to pay for gems and armbraces.

Ebay gold is large cash injections.

Enko · Aug 12, 2007, 11:14 PM // 23:14

i posted up in the trade search that i was selling a mini kanaxai for 50k ectos and immediately got quite a few offers. i wasn't even planning on selling my kanaxai; just wanted to see the offers and i was kind of surprised i got that many that fast.

GloryFox · Aug 12, 2007, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Quote:

posted by Enko
i posted up in the trade search that i was selling a mini kanaxai for 50k ectos and immediately got quite a few offers. i wasn't even planning on selling my kanaxai; just wanted to see the offers and i was kind of surprised i got that many that fast.

So here is the 50 million gold question. If you sell you mini and get your 50 mil equivalence's does ANET ban you for selling items to EBAY gold sellers? They have done so in the past even to people who did not know they did so.

There is an old saying I think applies...

"If its too good to be true it just might be."

Gaile Gray · Aug 12, 2007, 11:29 PM // 23:29

We're looking into the possibility that a display error is present that would make these offers more scam than a legitimate offer or proof that someone has almost unbelievable wealth. (Thread on that subject here.)

We'll let you know what we find out.

Grenths Ire · Aug 12, 2007, 11:32 PM // 23:32

um, i have a question. first a caveat; i have been playing since may '05, but i haven't ever been interested in large scale trades. that being said, how is it possible to trade 50,000ectos? if a stack is 250, 4 stacks is 1,000, it would take 200 stacks, right? or can ectos stack higher than 250...

like i said, i don't mean to be dumb; i just have never tried to gain that much wealth.

The Herbalizer · Aug 12, 2007, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Actually, everything was fine with the hyper-rare minipets until the announcement regarding the Hall of Monuments. If you kept track of prices (as I did), the inflation in price earlier in year largely mirrored the devaluation of the ecto following loot scaling.

Let's face it, making it such that the minipet is potentially 'transferrable' in some way to the next game (and it will be just as exclusive there as here) makes having one a lot more attractive. Combine that with the fact that it's possible to have crazy amounts of cash (the game's been running for 2 years) and you get crazy prices. This is independent of the gold-buying problem.

(Yes, I am familiar with the story of the Kanaxai that was sold to the gold-buyer and what was paid for it. That person ultimately is not the problem; these minis are both scarce and in demand and apparently the prices are correcting to the proper market values. The gold-buyer here is the mechanism by which the price corrects; it would have happened anyway, however. Just not as fast.)

Buying gold permits people to amass large concentrations of wealth much more rapidly than they normally should; I see how you would believe that their current effect on prices is limiting the items' availability from "legitimate" players. But let's be honest: you didn't get the 20 million you needed before the price correction to buy a Kanaxai by playing normally. Most of the major concentrations of wealth in the game have been amassed in the last year or so; generally they've been put together by hardcore traders. I've done my fair share of trading (see avatar); those guys can have it. Not that it isn't profitable, just that it's boring.

At the end of the day - if you want to lay blame for the current price situation on minis, it goes to two places. Domain of Anguish and Hard Mode. Both are very popular additions to the game; both make it very possible to accumulate a lot of wealth on a single account. That's driving the problem; the AMOUNT of gold people are buying is a symptom of the problems caused by those changes.

I really really hate to start correcting people and stuff but it has to be done.

If you made alot of gold e.g. tens of millions you either bought it or power traded it.

If you power traded it you would be known to other power traders. There is no way you could accumulate so much gold and not be famous within the power trading community. You cant make thousands upon thousands of ecto on the sly. I have dozens of power trading friends and we are always gossiping about who has what wealth, who got hacked, who bought what gold, who got banned, who bought what item, who joined what guild etc. Its as simple as that and I really hate to be arrogant now, if I dont know you then you didnt make those tens of millions of gold power trading.

The golden age of power trading was back in 2005/Early 2006. Every gold item was worth something there was what seemed like alot of ebayers and insanely wealthy people. Even all the big ebayers were known in the item collecting community.

Power trading recently could not allow you to accumulate tens of millions of gold. It would have had to have been made along while ago. All the big time power traders from back then who can be the only people with tens of millions of gold no longer play. I can think of only a few people who still play from back in the day but they no longer have the kind of wealth they once did.

Basically what I am getting at is, the people able to pay tens of millions of gold for mini pets now could have only made it legitimately from power trading and as I dont know them and every insanely wealthy power trader has quit GW, I can only conclude and conclude safely they did not make it power trading. Whats left? Buying it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I have a feeling that the minipet market isn't being driven by ebay gold, but by the huge stockpiles of wealth accumulated by power trading early on in the game; those players tend to correlate very well with the hardcore collector demographic that rare minipets would appeal to.

All the old school players have quit. Even back in the day 20 million was the highest amount anyone had and all of those players bar one have quit. The wealth isnt coming from old school players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by liner

It isnt known at all if having a pet in your storage/inventory is 'unlocking' anything for HoM. Perhaps you would require to actually receive the present from anet/unwrap it yourself..

i can see it now, wtb wrapped b/d present, 1000 armbraces. ^^

Im sure its possible to gather alot of money by power trading though, myself made over 300k within 2 weeks by a bit of farming and buying/selling gemsets.
... but multiple armbraces %)

Not the amount some people are throwing around now. Like I have mentioned before aside from a few people not capable of fronting the kind of gold required no old school power traders are left. Back in the day 100k per day was a respectable amount to make. And lets put it this way I have no way near enough to buy either a panda or a kanaxi.

And to add further support to the gold buying argument. Most of what is left of the power trading community dont give a shit about mini pets and would rather leave them to the gold buyers to fight amongst themselves over.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The only execption to the above is someone who sold their mini pet for a silly amount of gold and has a huge amount of gold as a result.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grenths Ire

um, i have a question. first a caveat; i have been playing since may '05, but i haven't ever been interested in large scale trades. that being said, how is it possible to trade 50,000ectos? if a stack is 250, 4 stacks is 1,000, it would take 200 stacks, right? or can ectos stack higher than 250...

like i said, i don't mean to be dumb; i just have never tried to gain that much wealth.

Armbraces are worth 70 ecto each at the moment and are stackable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

We're looking into the possibility that a display error is present that would make these offers more scam than a legitimate offer or proof that someone has almost unbelievable wealth. (Thread on that subject here.)

We'll let you know what we find out.

No, someone obtained through a trade 80 million gold well the equivalent in armbraces in my alliance and showed it to several people.

Please do something Anet about gold buyers. It cant be that hard to catch someone repeatedly getting huge amounts of gold.

lacasner · Aug 12, 2007, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Herbalizer

If you power traded it you would be known to other power traders. There is no way you could accumulate so much gold and not be famous within the power trading community. You cant make thousands upon thousands of ecto on the sly. I have dozens of power trading friends and we are always gossiping about who has what wealth, who got hacked, who bought what gold, who got banned, who bought what item, who joined what guild etc. Its as simple as that and I really hate to be arrogant now, if I dont know you then you didnt make those tens of millions of gold power trading.

The golden age of power trading was back in 2005/Early 2006. Every gold item was worth something there was what seemed like alot of ebayers and insanely wealthy people. Even all the big ebayers were known in the item collecting community.

It seems you have a different perception of merchanting than me..although its very hard to decipher from your descriptions what exactly "power trading" is. From my merchanting experience in this game and other games, I would somewhat haggle and "manipulate", (dare I use the word

) into paying a bit more or selling for a bit less of a certain item. Sort of like a used car salesman lol, although that would be down-grading what I and some of my friends did.

But other than that method, I don't quite see inner-circle trading of some sort (as you refer to it as), as a real way to make money.

Please care to elaborate to a confused GwG user.

makosi · Aug 12, 2007, 11:41 PM // 23:41

Would somebody really pay that much money for fictional currency to increase their fictional reputation in a fictional world?

Malice Black · Aug 12, 2007, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Who made 80mill?

Ben-A-BoO · Aug 12, 2007, 11:48 PM // 23:48

You guyz might want to be aware of something very disturbing going on:

It seems that some player(s) found a way to accumulated massive amounts of wealth and want to invest them in rare mini pets...

Here are two links to threads making this problem public:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10186091

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10186087

I was shocked!

All i ever got are those darn Elixirs of Valor lol and those guy(z) have like 1000 Armbraces ?? maybe even more ??

Gaile, Andrew, Anet Devs... do something and plz let us know.

Thanks for your time,
Timebandit

Edit: Gale and others were quicker then me lol ... thanks for the update.

The Herbalizer · Aug 13, 2007, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by lacasner

It seems you have a different perception of merchanting than me..although its very hard to decipher from your descriptions what exactly "power trading" is. From my merchanting experience in this game and other games, I would somewhat haggle and "manipulate", (dare I use the word

) into paying a bit more or selling for a bit less of a certain item. Sort of like a used car salesman lol, although that would be down-grading what I and some of my friends did.

But other than that method, I don't quite see inner-circle trading of some sort (as you refer to it as), as a real way to make money.

Please care to elaborate to a confused GwG user.

There used to be guild full of power traders; Li, Hero, TSM, HoZ, UH, Spil, Dark & Gone which are still active etc.

Its kind of long to explain. If you had a certain item you could find a collector of it easily. You could basically trade off of your friends list and contacts. Even now I know exactly who to go to say if I wanted a quick sale on a r7 item. When you sit in Lions Arch all day you kind of get to know the other traders. Thus allowing friendships to develop. The big traders usually have guru accounts so you know each other on guru too. As well as traders you get to know the item collectors and what they collect. Sorry for the short reply but I want to watch jay and silent bob strike back so cant type much more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

Would somebody really pay that much money for fictional currency to increase their fictional reputation in a fictional world?

Yeah, in other games people spend thousands of dollars. But I never thought it would happen in Guild Wars. I guess showing off your wealth in town makes them ultra desirable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

Who made 80mill?

PM sent.